[Part 2] From Anime Freelancing to Running An Indie Animation Studio: An Interview With Buta Productions’ FAR 

Once a freelance translator of anime production materials, Federico Antonio Russo, or FAR, is now the president of indie animation studio Buta Productions (or ButaPro). As they told us in the first half of this interview, FAR and their friend Blou co-founded the studio in response to the low rates of the industry and the desire to create “a production pipeline that was actually sustainable.”

In Part 1, I spoke with FAR about ButaPro’s creation, anime industry rates, and the studio’s original projects. In this part of the interview, we get a bit more technical as FAR talks about ButaPro’s efforts to achieve quality with 3D layouts. Also discussed were the studio’s size, their immediate goals, and the Chinese animation market.

This interview has been edited for clarity. 

Now, one thing that ButaPro emphasizes [on its website] is quality over quantity. What’s your pipeline like? What are your practices, motto, [et cetera] that ensures that you manage to hit that goal?

FAR: So, when it comes to that, the way to better ensure quality is, unfortunately, being very strict with the kind of project that we can accept and the kind of people that can work on the projects. This is kind of unfortunate in a way, [as] that makes ButaPro feel a bit elitist, in the sense that there are a lot of animators that are relatively successful by the standards of the industry, but we are not particularly interested in them because we know that they cannot ensure [a] quality product in the end. I don’t really like that part of my job.

There is also a struggle, a complicated balance to strike, when it comes to making a schedule that’s not too harsh, but at the same time, is not [too] lenient either. Because when the schedule is too harsh, the animators simply cannot put their best effort into it, but when the schedule is too lenient, they end up taking on other jobs, they end up using their time to do other stuff. And that’s something that we really need to consider. 

Of course, a very, very important aspect [of being a producer] is being able to understand what kind of structural issues an animator has, if they can improve [on them], or have a totally different speciality now. Or [identifying] if there are issues that are very difficult to solve at that point in time. And I feel that the job of a producer is very important to ensure quality because they have to understand people. I think that’s kind of the way I do it.

Another element to make sure that quality can always arise, technically speaking, is a more hybrid use of 3D layouts. In anime these days, usually, animators are not particularly good with perspective, despite the fact that perspective is one of the elements that makes or breaks a good layout. In order to make sure that even animators who are better at perspective are able to draw properly, studios these days create 3D layouts, which are 3D models of the scene, that are already kind of synced with the camera positioning on every file, so that you basically trace the “mannequin” that is on there. 

This kind of approach is interesting because it levels the playing field when it comes to knowledge of perspective and ability with drawing in perspective. At the same time, a lot of animators that have way better layout [skills] will be able to achieve [more on their own], but are not able to perform well if they follow the 3D layout. Unfortunately, in the standard industry, 3D layouts are mostly outsourced. A storyboard gets given to a 3D company, this 3D company makes a 3D layout based on the storyboard, and then, they give the 3D layouts to the episode director. And if the episode director is competent enough with 3D and has enough time, they check and change the things that they don’t want.

Of course, given the fact that the storyboards in the Eastern industry are very, very rough compared to the Western industry, where they are very, very clean, it’s very difficult to get a properly good 3D layout immediately for every cut on one episode. So, rather than doing this like an outsourcing company, for every production we get a specific person to mix all the 3D layouts for the enshutsu (episode/unit director). If the episode director is competent enough, we’re gonna ask them to make the 3D layouts and plan them.

And then, we’re going to look at the warifure, which is the list of all the cut assignments for the different animators, and we’re gonna see which animators need the 3D layouts and which don’t. Thanks to this level of higher communication, it’s possible to make sure that the animators that are not particularly good at perspective are getting the 3D layouts, but the ones that are good at perspective will not be limited by them. 

That’s probably the biggest thing that we do to ensure the quality kinda stays up from a technical standpoint, but the rest is mostly human resources management. 

Technical experimentation was another thing that was mentioned [on your website] — is that related to the [3D] layouts or was there more to it as well?

FAR: When it comes to technical experimentation, we think about it from a different perspective. For example, there are different styles that are not particularly common right now, [so] we try to use them to achieve a unique look, or [we use] a look that’s particularly helpful to deliver the production’s message. And we also try to make sure that certain things we don’t like about the industry don’t permeate the production. One of these is, of course, the 3D layouting, but also having a lot of so-called “failed” modoshi (modoshi refers to the act of returning something).

The production process for key animation works like this: You get the animator to make the layout based on the storyboard. Once the layout is developed, the episode director corrects them, and then, based on that correction, the animation supervisor will make a sketch that makes the animator understand how the genga (key animation) should be made. 

The issue is that oftentimes, the animator that’s going to do the genga is not the [same] animator who did the layout, for reasons related to production difficulties. So for example, the animator who did the layout doesn’t have time to make their own genga, or they disappear and there are three days left to finish the genga, and so you have to split the workload among so many different people. We often try to find ways to avoid that. One of them is simply management, so getting a proper schedule that allows that. Another is to not have scenes that are too long for each animator, which is another thing that’s happening in anime. Another is simply being in a position where we give proper benefits to  animators who are able to do their own genga, on a greater scale. 

In terms of other types of technical experimentation it’d definitely be technology. We kind of live in a moment in time where there is a bit of a bubble when it comes to AI, and [it] kinda creates the sort of situation where people think that’s the direction where animation is heading. I don’t think it’s really the case, but nevertheless, there are a lot of interesting things that are going on with new technology. For example, in-between animation these days can be done using tools that go into the more vector aspect of things, rather than the raster aspect of things. Which can be very helpful to get faster and more powerful [results].

And then for example, I saw that there are people that are using neural [technology] to color faster with the help of the first frame and the color settei (designs) for that particular character or particular scene. The neural network is able to understand the different positions and which color has to be put in different places. That can be helpful to make sure that in shiage  — which is digital colouring, even if technically it means “finishing” — it can be done faster. And that’s something that’s very important because shiage is one of the more, I’d say, time-consuming and annoying and worst-paid parts of animation productions. It’s also one of the more dead-end [positions], in a way. I would say the number of people who do shiage in every episode is kinda the same as [the number of] animators, but there are only a couple of color designers that work in a single episode. Maybe three or four, if you add the color checkers. 

And that’s crazy bad, because it means that 40 people will either do shiage forever, or they are gonna quit. So to me, it’s very important that these people can rapidly transition from shiage to color design and color check, so that we can have more color designers, more color checkers, and less shiage people. Maybe four people out of 40 getting on the upper level of positions, the senior positions. Maybe we can get to the point where we get half of them on the upper level positions. And that’s something I think we can properly achieve by having something like that. 

Even at this time, I am not really [doing this] in the professional productions, only in experiments, ‘cause there are still issues with the copyrights. We need to understand if the datasets can be used on a professional work or not, and that’s something that’s still very unclear. But we are doing some experimentation to make sure that we can maybe go in a direction where it’s less expensive, but also more rewarding for the people that are in that department. 

And then we also have a lot of other experimentation that are less flashier than those, but very, very interesting. For example, camera mapping on 3D layouts that can be applied to backgrounds. Or [the] use of CGI with a certain degree of filters and shaders — it can feel very, very 2D, and we can make some very difficult things to do in 2D in 3D instead, and so on.

In Episode 8 [of one of our projects], I’m very interested in how people are going to react to that, because almost half of the cuts have some CGI elements, but they feel very appropriate for the situation, in a way that, I’d say, is kind of similar to what Ufotable does. But [also] in a way that feels more cel-oriented, more like, 2D coloring-oriented. And I’m very curious to see if people are going to like it or if they’re going to dislike it.

So we’re definitely very interested in playing around with new technology. We definitely want to get in a position where we can help out with the life-work balance of the people working on the episode, but at the same time [be] able to go in directions that are actually interesting and not simply reduce the cost and difficulty. We also want to make sure these are used to make things that otherwise you wouldn’t be able to make. 

How many people does ButaPro have at the moment?

FAR: It’s a bit difficult to say [right now] because we have people who will probably follow us for the years to come — I’d say like around 15-ish. But then, we also have plenty of people who are following us only for the months to come, given that we are not handling a lot of productions [right now]. When it comes to the total amount of people currently involved, we have around 60 people, I’d say. 

And they include compositors, art directors, all that?

FAR: Ah, these [non-full time] people are rarely in those positions. We have animators, directors, background artists — everything that can be done in-house is done in-house. Every department that can be put into an animation studio. Except, maybe, some of the inbetween animators, some of the colorists — at this moment in time [that] gets done through outsourcing.. 

In order to make sure that this practice is sustainable, we try to pay around four or five times the amount that gets thrown at a particular department [in the anime industry], and  we avoid asking for very low prices also, because it’s very difficult then to get a good result. But we also do some of the in-between [animation] and the coloring in-house. It’s just that we don’t really have enough people to actually do it only in-house [all the time]. But we have a kind of double situation there, where some of the more difficult things we do them in-house, some of the more easy things, we can outsource them.

And for screenwriters, are you also looking for in-house screenwriters?

FAR: We are looking for [freelance] screenwriters rather than in-house screenwriters because the number of scripts they would have to write every year would be so low [, making it difficult] to actually have them on a proper payroll basis. But we are interested in people who are proper screenwriters with credits who can help us with the original projects. 

Most of this industry— like there is no studio in Japan, from what I know, that has in-house screenwriters. Of course ideally, in the future, we would like to have one, maybe a couple of them, but we are not able to sustain it right now when most studios aren’t really able to sustain it. In general, the screenwriting industry in animation is mostly freelance-based. 

At the moment, you’re looking for screenwriters who, as a bonus, are familiar with the Chinese anime market, right? What are your plans for the Chinese market?

FAR: Currently, the Chinese market is not as big as it was, maybe, like in 2017, 2019. It kind of peaked [then]. Now, it’s a little bit less important for two reasons mainly. The first one is that simply, the purchasing power of the Chinese fans is not as big as it was before, and the second one is because a lot of Chinese fans are also watching Chinese productions as well. 

Before 2016, I’d say most donghua didn’t really have a big fandom internally to self-sustain it. A lot of productions were not particularly successful —  some of them were basically levelling up the field. But now, it’s a little bit different, especially for stuff that’s targeted towards women. Before, a lot of the money that the Chinese otaku spent were mostly going towards Japanese productions. Right now, it’s going also into domestic productions. 

It’s nevertheless one of the big markets after the US, which is the first, and Japan. And considering the fact that China has some rules that are stricter compared to other countries when it comes to what can be broadcast and what cannot be broadcast, we also want someone that understands what the limits of working in animation that’s also targeted to China would be, so we are actually able to get things done. 

To be fair, we also have a lot of Chinese friends and fellow animators. For example, Studio Tumble is a big friend of ours. We are able to get some hints from them, [like about] what cannot be done, and what kind of projects they are able to greenlight. So we’re getting an idea, but even then, it’s important that the screenwriters know [about these things] also.

So, ButaPro is mostly web-based, right? Everyone is like, scattered around the globe. How has your experience, and also Blou’s experience, helped with managing such a studio?

FAR: When it comes to operations and percentages, I’d say half of ButaPro, or at least the people who are very key to ButaPro, are within the European Union. Then, we have some people in Japan, the States, and then some in other Asian countries. A good amount of people are in the Philippines and Indonesia as well.

In terms of handling this multicultural landscape, I’d say it’s not particularly difficult — I’d say it’s relatively doable. The main difficulties aren’t from [the] cultural aspect per say, but making sure that everyone is in a proper position for themselves, irregardless of their geographical location. Usually, that means the fact that in every country there is a different cost of living. There are countries where the cost of living is very high, so certain unit prices [are] not so good. [Then,] there are countries where certain unit prices are very low. That’s definitely one of the things that makes it difficult to consider [and balance out for everyone]. 

These days, a lot of foreign animators go to Japan because of this reason. Like a lot of people who may be living in high-income countries like [in] Northern Europe or in [the] US. They go to Japan because, ultimately, it’s easier to get a cost of living that’s not that high, and so they’re able to survive. And that’s an element we need to deliver. Because it’s very easy for us to invest in someone who lives in Indonesia, because the cost of living is not particularly high. Even base price[s] for an Indonesian person, or 15,000 [yen], or even less, that’s going to be enough to actually make a living that’s like on the upper ranges. But for someone who lives in the US, if they don’t ask for a very, very high price, it’s going to be very difficult to even just make a living.

In the last few years, there have been companies like ButaPro, Tonari Animation, and Chuckle Mouse [Studio], these international web-based companies that use the Japanese animation pipeline. What would you say are the circumstances that gave rise to these studios?

FAR: I think every studio has a different reason to come into the world. Tonari, for example, it was made simply because Jarett [Martin] wanted to make Japanese animation as their source of living. But, there are also companies that are very different, for example there is Koeda [Animation]. There is also a studio in Latin America, they’re doing it simply because it’s profitable for them. Because the cost of living [in their country] is very low, they’re able to make good money out of it, even at base price. 

For Buta Productions, it’s also completely different. We’re not necessarily focused on [Japanese] anime because we work also on Korean productions, even Chinese productions, if they [want to] work with us, we’ll be perfectly fine working with them. If [it’s a] western production like Castlevania, and they give us some cards, we’d  be happy to look at them. Like, it’s not really that much about the country of origin, it’s about if you can fit inside their pipeline, essentially. We like a lot of studios, for example, Cartoon Saloon, but I struggle to believe that we would be helpful in a production like that. 

Ultimately, animation is animation. You can create limits even within the pipeline given, but a good animator will be a good animator, regardless of what they use. They might need a bit of time to adjust to that pipeline, but the skill is always the same at the end of the day.

When exactly did ButaPro start operations?

FAR: We started operations pretty much at the start of the summer, before we announced the studio actually. We did a small amount of smaller projects, so the people who contacted us were well-aware of the fact that the studio was [already] forming. 

Finally, right now, what are the immediate hurdles and goals that ButaPro is looking to clear?

FAR: So, the current hurdles are, essentially, making enough money that we can sit down somewhere and think about what to do. Because ultimately, that’s the reality. A lot of studios are definitely not in a good situation right now, in the sense that — like, I think I was looking at some data from 2023, and it seems like 45% of outsourcing studios are in the red, which is a bit [concerning]. We are kind of on that same level of playing field, and the same level [in terms of the amount] of resources that we get. 

We definitely need to avoid being in that situation. We definitely need to be able to rent a place somewhere and give everyone the opportunity to join the company, if they want to join. And [also] being in a position where we actually allot proper wages rather than simply [do] freelance work. Because we can now offer some wages to some animators, but we cannot do that for [all] the 60 people that we are working with right now. That’s definitely the first hurdle, the first objective. Then the second one is simply being able to have enough negotiating power. 

So, money and negotiating power. 

FAR: Absolutely.